Violence on film

Re:Re:Re:Re:Behaviour & Censorship

   'Laws', Rizzo?   That is not what seperates men from beasts.   'Laws' were created as more of a 'code-of-conduct' among very primative people eons ago so they could live together without butchering each other.   MANY so called 'animals' adhere to the same, or a very similar, 'code-of-conduct'.   Wolves for example or lions or seals or dolphins or prairie-dogs...   they all have one thing in common,  they must work together in order to survive.   Their so called 'laws' enable them to do this....   We are no different.   I guess the big difference is that we are a bit too smart for ourselves and we have WAY too many ludicrous 'laws' for our own good!   Our prisons are overflowing because of all of these 'laws' and the world is really no better off for it...

   I would suggest that you watch  Planet Of The Apes  one more time and you might want to throw in  The Lord Of The Flies  and  The Warriors  as well...   not to mention MANY old westerns that deal directly with this subject matter!   Young Guns  anyone?   This country was founded on violence and lawlessness ...   that is what we are.   Not unlike Australia!

                                                               <  GOR  >

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   Or, as  Billy Jack  once said,   "When policemen break the law, then there is no law...  only the fight for survival..."

Re:Dr_Gor and Risselada

El_Aaron:

Dr_Gor, those are my thoughts exactly! That's my reason for being against censorship. You have a good point about violence as well, I mean, we and other animals have to kill other living things for food and survival. Risselada, I myself wonder why we need laws but wouldn't you be worried if someone was killing people or stalking them for sexual pleasures and it would be perfectly legal?

I wasn't wondering why we need laws.  I understand why.  I was just making a point that people are more than just animals.

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Dr_Gor:

'Laws', Rizzo?   That is not what seperates men from beasts.   'Laws' were created as more of a 'code-of-conduct' among very primative people eons ago so they could live together without butchering each other.   MANY so called 'animals' adhere to the same, or a very similar, 'code-of-conduct'.   Wolves for example or lions or seals or dolphins or prairie-dogs...   they all have one thing in common,  they must work together in order to survive.   Their so called 'laws' enable them to do this....   We are no different.   I guess the big difference is that we are a bit too smart for ourselves and we have WAY too many ludicrous 'laws' for our own good!   Our prisons are overflowing because of all of these 'laws' and the world is really no better off for it...

   I would suggest that you watch  Planet Of The Apes  one more time and you might want to throw in  The Lord Of The Flies  and  The Warriors  as well...   not to mention MANY old westerns that deal directly with this subject matter!   Young Guns  anyone?   This country was founded on violence and lawlessness ...   that is what we are.   Not unlike Australia!

                                                               <  GOR  >

Well I guess I was just thinking of laws because cencorship is usually some kind of law.  And animals don't really have any form of censorship, but then again they don't seem to make any kind of art.  Well maybe you could say what many animals create is art, but they don't put any moral judgements on any of it.  Maybe it's more of a sense of morality that separates us from the beasts.

I'm certainly not denying the fact that it is in our nature to act like beasts though.  Certainly laws get made for rediculous reasons, and usually to exploit some power or fear.  And it certainly is in man's nature in general to break laws.  But is it always noble to do so?  Is resorting to violence noble?  Well nobility and any related virtues certainly seem to be another thing that separates us from other animals.  I guess I've heard of animals feeling embarassment or guilt, but I'm not sure if it extends to those higher conceptions of morality.

The point is man has a violent nature, but also a sense of morality.  They there is tention when you try to allow both to be a part of your life.

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joem18b:

if someone makes a snuff film and then is prosecuted for murder,  should the film be censored?

I think that kind of thing has happened before hasn't it?  Video or audio recordings or photos of gruesome events.  Usually it would be evidence in a court case, and they restrict it from being viewed by the public yeah?  I dunno.

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if that is censored, then the question is, where is the line to be drawn between censored and not-censored. suppose it's supposed to be a snuff film but the person doesn't die? or it's just meant to be a film where somebody gets roughed up? etc.

we can't get off the hook because of court cases because the question applies if the film is in the public domain with no one being prosecuted.

but i guess that's always the question with censorship: where the line gets drawn. 

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   I have an interesting example...   Recently I showed FroggyBabe the very rare and hard to find 'uncut' version of Joe D'Amato's  'Anthropophagous' .    This movie is known by several different names including  Anthropophagous: The Beast ,  The Grim Reaper  and  Savage Island .   This is actually a VERY good Horror Movie that stars Tisa Farrow - Mia's little sister -  as part of a group of 'young people' who arrive on a greek island expecting to meet family and friends only to find the place completely deserted...   it seems everyone was killed and eaten by a horribly sunburnburn-scarred, canniballistic, deranged madman!    You see, he was stranded at sea in a lifeboat with his wife and son and the son died and they had no food or water sooo...   things got a bit ugly....  

   Anyhow, among the group of young people is a girl who happens to be VERY pregnant.   She is among the first victims of 'the Beast'...   she gets 'taken', seemingly dead, very early on in the movie.   It is some time later when we realize that she is still alive and the Beast  (played by 'George Eastman', by the way)  has stashed her away in his underground lair!   Later he returns and drags the girl onto the floor and reaches up under her dress and removes her fetus and eats it!   This,very short, scene was NOT overly graphic, except for the subject matter,  yet this scene is missing from almost EVERY version of this film!   Just to drive my point home about this scene being NOT overly graphic, I feel I must describe it to you...  as I know that very few, if any, of you have ever seen it!  

   The girl is laying on her back and conscious.   The Beast is kneeling over her.   He rubs her pregnant belly with his right hand as he reaches up under her knee-length dress with his left hand...   She screams and wriggles around a bit and dies, and he removes his hand from under her dress holding a fetus.   He then lifts the fetus to his mouth and takes a bite (!) as if from an apple!   I know I am grossing some people out here, but this is what it shows in the movie!   And, actually, the picture cuts away just as he is beginning to take a bite!   Just enough to show you what he did!    This is clearly a case of editing due to subject matter rather than being too graphic!

   I hope I have inspired some of you to watch this movie and I challenge anyone to tell me they have seen the infamous 'fetus-eating' scene, as described above!

                                               <  GOR  >

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   P.S.    I could not find this movie listed on SPOUT by any of the titles that I know but you CAN find it on IMDB...   The 'uncut' version that I have is on VHS and I bought it from a 'VHS-bootlegger' in the early 1990's.   WARNING:  There are SEVERAL versions which claim to be 'uncut' but aren't!   It took me three tries to finally get the COMPLETELY 'uncut' version!

   Perhaps I can persuade Froggy to put in her two cents worth on this movie...

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