pippin06
Posts 578
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3/4/2006 4:29 PM
posted awhile ago
Fantasy and theology
Since theology is based in faith on something that might happen or might have happened that is not actually based in reality but in faith-based suppositions rooted in something, like Christianity in general or the Bible, I would argue that some movies with religious-subtext, such as "Dogma," qualify as fantasy.
Especially since we don't often get a chance to see angels with actual wings. Except in the movies.
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MsMaxwell
Posts 98
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3/7/2006 12:53 PM
posted awhile ago
Re: Fantasy and theology
This is a very interesting idea. I have never thought about it in these terms before. Are you, perhaps, rooting the understanging of "fantasy" as something that requires human imagination? "Dogma" certainly fits into that category, then! First, you must have general religious (or specifically Christian) abilities to imagine God, angels, etc. More significantly in this particular instance, you must imagine the dogma of the Roman Catholic Church being absolutely, undeniably true. When that imagined reality is plugged into "actual events," strange things occur.
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pippin06
Posts 578
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3/7/2006 6:01 PM
posted awhile ago
Re: Fantasy and theology
Ah yes. Hence the name of the group - "The Imagination of Fantasy." To me, fantasy is about the imagination, regardless of your sensibilties and background. Of course, partly, I did not want to limit the group listings to fantasy in the most traditional definition: orcs and dragons and faeries and wizards and all of that stuff. Fantasy is that, but it's so much more. I think it's the natural extension of the capability of human imagination.
Yet, since all humans are different, and the fuels of the fires of their imaginations arise from their individual experiences and developments, then religion might naturally produce the ability to imagine God, angels, and other flights of fancy about the divine. And if you're Catholic, well, plenary indulgence has a certain significance and can lead to all sorts of possibilities. And so, take one Kevin Smith (a Catholic by upbringing) and his slightly twisted though always prolific imagination, and you have "Dogma."
Anyone not seen this movie? I highly recommend it! No matter what your religious affiliation (or non-affiliation), I find this to be the best of the View Askiewniverse and one of my favorite movies. Of course, if you've checked out my favorites list, you've seen that "favorite" means really really like in my definition.
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bishop
Posts 85
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3/24/2006 10:43 PM
posted awhile ago
Re: Fantasy and theology
dogma rocked.
i sometimes grew tired of their back and forth banter, but it was bearable.
and come on...george carlin and chris rock in the same film? awesome...
of course jay and silent bob always help the kevin smith movies work for me.
but alanis as god...bleh...she makes me feel ill for some reason.
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MsMaxwell
Posts 98
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3/31/2006 9:55 AM
posted awhile ago
Re: Fantasy and theology
I can see why she made you feel ill--but I thought that was an empowering moment for women. (De-powering for God, though? It was a bit bizarre.)
I still like her, but I don't know if Alanis is a good actor.
BTW, I took yoga with her brother.
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pippin06
Posts 578
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4/1/2006 5:05 PM
posted awhile ago
Re: Fantasy and theology
You did????? Did you talk to him? That's like two degrees of separation from Alanis.
And Alanis as God ... well, it fit with the motif of the story didn't it? Besides, she provided "Still" for the soundtrack, a very good song.
I don't think it depowered God. Not considering the storyline.
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PammyK
Posts 216
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4/6/2006 11:46 AM
posted awhile ago
Re: Fantasy and theology
I remember not liking Dogma. I think it was a little too weird, and made me feel um...too weird. Although I might be confusing it with Little Nicky. I think movies that portray heaven/hell/satan/God in modern day real world situations sorta rub me the wrong way. Except for maybe Bruce Almighty...ha ha, and perhaps the DaVinci Code which I read and liked a lot as a book.
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pippin06
Posts 578
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4/7/2006 8:47 AM
posted awhile ago
Re: Fantasy and theology
I think you're thinking of Little Nicky. That movie made me kind of nauseous. Though, admittedly, Dogma's not for everyone...
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bishop
Posts 85
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4/10/2006 1:48 AM
posted awhile ago
Re: Fantasy and theology
i disliked alanis as god not because she was a woman, but because she is a squeeky, monotoned singer who has no business acting.
the woman as god thing actually comforts me.
think about it....all life on earth is forged in the belly of a woman.
the creation of life is inherently female.
why should the universe as a whole be any different?
Dogma brings that to the film rather well.
let the rants begin...
:)
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pippin06
Posts 578
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4/10/2006 12:36 PM
posted awhile ago
Re: Fantasy and theology
rants? no rants from me. other than that alanis doesn't sing in the movie (or even talk), so i'm not sure i understand the bias, other than that you must really hate alanis. which is ok. to each one's own, eh?
of course, my interpretation of the point that the film was trying to make is not that God is a woman, per se, but that God will likely take whatever form means most to you as the believer so long as you believe and have faith. remember that bethany really takes to the idea that God might be a woman after serendipity suggests as much to her in the strip joint. forever after that, bethany refers to God as "She" and, so, when God appears, She is a woman.
alanis didn't offend me. i love the movie, though, so perhaps i'm biased.
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