Heroines in Hollywood

The List!

I'm hoping to get a list going here of 'essential' films featuriing women.  In some way, these films should each create/portray some sort of archetype that somehow demonstrates an idea/stereotype/cultural standard for women.

I'll start.  I chose Kill Bill for the group picture because I feel that few films have shown so many different aspects and archetypes for women.  The very fact that Uma Thurman's character is referred to as 'The Bride' is worthy of note in and of itself.  Her character goes from sword-wielding-sexy-vixen to nuturing mother to vengeful kung-fu killer to mother bear to... well, you get the point.  I'm not sure any other film hits so many cultural archetypes so clearly. 

Was there an intentional message in all of this?  I'm not even really sure, however I feel that Kill Bill leaves the audience with a sense that women are deeper than the typical shallow one-sided portrayal that is so painfully common on the silver screen.  I would actually be so bold as to submit this as a feminist film.

Re:The List!

The two films I'd like to discuss star Winona Ryder in two very different roles: The Age of Innocence and Bram Stoker's Dracula.

The Age of Innocence deals with many themes of early 20th century life, but specifically of the suffocation of women at that time. May Welland ( Ryder) is supposed to be an innocent in comparison to her more brazen cousin Mme. Olenska (played by the ever beautiful Michelle Pfeiffer).  What we learn, however, is that May knows more than she lets on about the nature of people and even surprises her husband Archer in the end by understanding the stifling he felt during their marriage.  Despite her intellect, if she had let her husband in on her ideas might've saved their marriage, she felt tied to the conventions of the time-forced to mold herself ( and her husband) into a couple of that era, never breaking from convention. She so bought into this notion that she did not question convention at all or, as Archer said " there was no need trying to emancipate a wife who hadn't the dimmest notion she wasn't free."

The new film The Duchess deals with similar themes of  a woman's asphyxiation in a marriage.

Winona in Dracula is almost like what men feared would happened to someone like May Welland if they did not keep them naive and out of touch with their sexuality. What if May decided to open up to Archer and actually have real relationship, beyond the politeness and formality? What if she feell down the rabbit hole and decided to meet his expectations? What this film represents is how afraid men were ( and in many cases, still are) of a woman's sexual awakening.  Although the film ( and the novel) take place in a bygone era,  how much have films really changed from portraying women as either the delicate virgin or the seductive, man-eating whore?  I think the more films tackle life's gray area, the sticky, confusing parts, the more we'll see heroines that fall somewhere in the middle of those achetypes.

seely:

I'm hoping to get a list going here of 'essential' films featuriing women.  In some way, these films should each create/portray some sort of archetype that somehow demonstrates an idea/stereotype/cultural standard for women.

I'll start.  I chose Kill Bill for the group picture because I feel that few films have shown so many different aspects and archetypes for women.  The very fact that Uma Thurman's character is referred to as 'The Bride' is worthy of note in and of itself.  Her character goes from sword-wielding-sexy-vixen to nuturing mother to vengeful kung-fu killer to mother bear to... well, you get the point.  I'm not sure any other film hits so many cultural archetypes so clearly. 

Was there an intentional message in all of this?  I'm not even really sure, however I feel that Kill Bill leaves the audience with a sense that women are deeper than the typical shallow one-sided portrayal that is so painfully common on the silver screen.  I would actually be so bold as to submit this as a feminist film.

Re:The List!

The theme of men resisting the sexual awakening of woman brings to mind "Pleasantville".  Who can forget "the bathtub scene"?  I don't believe there has ever been a clearer image of sexual awakening in a film, before or since.  The shift from black-and-white to colour was really clever and poigniant.  Pleasantville was definitely an interesting look at the sexual repression of the times (1950's) and then the awakening towards the end of the decade with the beginning of the 1960's, in a third-wave feminist post Simone d'Beauvoir era.

filmgal81:

What this film represents is how afraid men were ( and in many cases, still are) of a woman's sexual awakening.  Although the film ( and the novel) take place in a bygone era,  how much have films really changed from portraying women as either the delicate virgin or the seductive, man-eating whore?  I think the more films tackle life's gray area, the sticky, confusing parts, the more we'll see heroines that fall somewhere in the middle of those achetypes.

 

seely:

I'm hoping to get a list going here of 'essential' films featuriing women.  In some way, these films should each create/portray some sort of archetype that somehow demonstrates an idea/stereotype/cultural standard for women.

I'll start.  I chose Kill Bill for the group picture because I feel that few films have shown so many different aspects and archetypes for women.  The very fact that Uma Thurman's character is referred to as 'The Bride' is worthy of note in and of itself.  Her character goes from sword-wielding-sexy-vixen to nuturing mother to vengeful kung-fu killer to mother bear to... well, you get the point.  I'm not sure any other film hits so many cultural archetypes so clearly. 

Was there an intentional message in all of this?  I'm not even really sure, however I feel that Kill Bill leaves the audience with a sense that women are deeper than the typical shallow one-sided portrayal that is so painfully common on the silver screen.  I would actually be so bold as to submit this as a feminist film.

Re:The List!

I'd like to add Ridley Scott's Gladiator to the list because of the role of Connie Nielsen as the emperor's sister, Lucilla. I found it interesting when her father says to her in confidence "If only you had been born a man." He wished she could be the emperor after him instead of Commodus because he recognized her superior political abilities, emotional maturity, and character virtues. All this in comparison to her delinquent brother who had obvious incestual tendencies.

I personally enjoyed her role because it showed the difficulties that woman faced even as, or perhaps especially due to, her high status. Of course there is balancing the intricacies of handling her mentally deranged brother whose ego has been heavily inflated by his recent rise to power, protecting her son, and trying to prevent Rome from being destroyed by her inept brother who is only worried about whether the people love him or not.

Ultimately I don't think the character of Lucilla was nearly wise or shrewd enough. Probably because I've watched the movie too many times. Regardless it is an excellent film, and the female heroine is worthy of our praise, no matter how flawed she may appear.

Re:The List!

Teeth!  TEETH is a blatantly feminist movie in the guise of a horror comedy. But my horror buff friend points out to me that 90% of all horror movies are actually really pro-women. Isn't it always a woman that kills the beast or controls him in the end? 

But back to Teeth! Teeth is about a woman with teeth in her vagina... there really isn't much more that needs to be said. It speaks for itself.  :)

Re:The List!

   "There are only two things that scare me...   women and the police."   (Burt Reynolds in "White Lightning") ...

   You gotta love those warrior women!   I thought the  "Kill Bill"  movies were EXCELLENT and I have a secret fantasy of Uma Thurman just beating the living shit out of me...   just as long as she doesn't pluck my eyeball out of my head or cut me in two with her fucking sword!   Other than that, it would all be good...   Another good one would be Sanahl Bergman as 'Valeria' in  Conan the Barbarian .   She kicks some serious butt in that movie.   Also, I think it is the same chick who plays Conan's Mom in that movie who also plays a boner inducing 'Viking Princess' in the excellent  The 13th Warrior .  

   Along these lines we must not forget Sigourney Weaver in the  Alien  series and Jamie Lee Curtis in  Halloween .   And, of course, Linda Hamilton in  The Terminator  series...

   I could ramble on for hours on this subject but I will stop for now.   Thanks again for starting this wonderful group!

                                                                                           < GOR >

Re:The List!

Awesome list so far.  Its interesting to see how pro-woman that Hollywood can actually be at times.  Generally speaking, it seems that people have a poor view of Hollywood's portrayal of women, but I think there are a lot out there that are trying to subvert it.  Teeth is a great example (and my worst nightmare...). 

So far, most of these have been pretty positive and strong examples of pro-feminist film... anyone think of any blatantly chauvinist/anti-feminist films?  Theres always your stereotypical 'chick flicks', but I am trying to think of something that deliberately marginalizes/maligns women...

Re:The List!

The Hooker with the Heart of Gold plot line?  Sweet Charity, Pretty Woman, Milk Money?  All cute romances but it's a still a woman depending on a man for salvation.

Re:The List!

Good picks!  The "Prosititute to Princess" plot has always irked me.  Pretty Woman in some ways is almost a romanticism of prostitution.  Yikes!  And you're right--in the end it always takes a kind-hearted gentleman to come along and see her for what she really is and reach out to her despite her lowly position.  I understand how that message could be perceived as good (don't judge a book by its cover, etc), however I think there are ways of showing it that would be less demeaning and less stereotypical.

This brings me to an entire genre of films I can't stand--Princess films.  Anything starring Anne Hathaway falls under this category, as far as I can tell.  Generally, the message of these films is that the unnattractive/unwanted girl winds up as the Princess, rescued by her dashing knight from a life of mediocrity.  Not only is this unrealistic and once again dependent on a male rescuer, it also teaches girls that sitting around looking pretty and cute is the highest goal in life.  Don't believe me?  Ask my Disney obsessed neice...

Ravie13:

The Hooker with the Heart of Gold plot line?  Sweet Charity, Pretty Woman, Milk Money?  All cute romances but it's a still a woman depending on a man for salvation.

Re:The List!

seely:

Good picks!  The "Prosititute to Princess" plot has always irked me.  Pretty Woman in some ways is almost a romanticism of prostitution.  Yikes!  And you're right--in the end it always takes a kind-hearted gentleman to come along and see her for what she really is and reach out to her despite her lowly position.  I understand how that message could be perceived as good (don't judge a book by its cover, etc), however I think there are ways of showing it that would be less demeaning and less stereotypical.

   Don't underestimate  "the oldest profession in the world" , my friend.   Prostitutes are a very important part of every society in the world.   They have been around since the very dawn of Man and they will probably be around long after we are extinct.   Just what, exactly, would you call that girl who lets you **** her just because you have a nice car and you buy her pretty things?   I am 48 years old and I have seen it all and every night I get down on my knees and thank God for prostitutes...

                                                                                     < GOR >