Philosophy of Film

Deception

I got into a conversation with my friends Adam (SkyPilot) and Noah a couple weeks ago.  We were sitting around drinking and chatting and playing cards, and I put in the Fargo DVD.  I played some of the special features, and then put on the movie while we chatted.  There was some dicussion in the special features in the film and among us about the fact that the beginning of the movie starts off with a screen of text that reads:

"THIS IS A TRUE STORY. The events depicted in this film took place in Minnesota in 1987. At the request of the survivors, the names have been changed. Out of respect for the dead, the rest has been told exactly as it occurred."

Since then as far as can be shown, there was no such event.  The Coen brothers have been recorded answering inquiries about this, but the various responses they have given have been cryptic or contradicting, which is standard for the brothers.  They have claimed at times that it was absolutely true, other times have said that various parts of the movie are all true but taken from different true events and pieced together.  Some people who worked with the Coens on the movie including William H. Macy in the specials features on the DVD comment that the Coens told them flat out that the whole story was fabricated and that the claim at the beginning of the movie is basically a lie.  When Macy told them that they couldn't do that, they asked him why not.

There were many comments and reactions and stories about all of this.  One of many I might mention was that there was an unusual news story about a woman who apparently traveled from Japan to Minnesota after seeing Fargo to find the money that the character of Carl Showalter buries in the snow by a fence in a field.  She was found dead from exposure several days later.  I only just found out now when writing this post that that this story was also in a way fabricated.  There was a real event about a woman from Tokyo coming to Minnesota and dying, but the story about her seeing Fargo was made up.  Her death was actually a documented suicide apparently.  The fact that I just discovered that story itself was fabricated gives me another unusual insight on the issue.

When we talked about this, my friend Adam was upset about it.  He thought it was deceptive and immoral (later we continued to talk about it and indicated that he had thought about it more and possibly took a new perspective on it).  I don't want to lay out everything that we talked about because there was a lot, and the conversation went into many different directions.  But I have thought a lot on this subject and find it interesting.

I am now asking you to comment on what your immediate reactions to this situation is.  I have a lot more to say, but it's much easier and more fun in a dialogue rather than a monologue format.

Re: Deception

Not exactly part of your discussion above, but have you seen The Shape of Things?; it is a neat little tale of an artist's work...at the conclusion, I did not know whether to be infuriated or marvel at how much we want to believe, when we want to believe.

The fact that the story in Fargo was/is fabricated does not trouble me, rather the interesting point  to me is a presumption of 'responsibilty' for ones actions due to our beliefs....but it is off your subject.

thanks for beginning this group and inviting me in, for  I suspect it will prove fascinating.

Re: Deception

I certainly think what you seem to be suggesting is appropriate here.

No I have not seen The Shape of Things, but after just seeing In the Company of Men recently I don't doubt that LaBute could explore that subject quite well.

And of course there is the question as to whether belief and truth are a complete dualism.  I propose they aren't.  Especially in storytelling and art.

Re: Deception

Re: Deception

Great group idea!

Great discussion topic, too.

Reading this makes me think of Hitchcock's Stage Fright where one of the main characters comes in and tells us what has happened to him.  We see it in flashback but find out at the end of the film the whole first few minutes was a lie.

It angered a lot of people, but I think it is an interesting concept.  Why must you believe everything you see? 

Again, Hitchcock, but Rear Window has a similar scene where Thurgood (Raymond Bradbury, "the killer") leaves late one night while LBJ (Jimmy Stewart) is sleeping.  We think he is crazy the whole time because we see Thurgood leave with what looks like his wife.

I guess movie makers haven't used the technique of flat out lying to the audience, but maybe it is an area that has yet to be fully explored.

On the note of the Coen's it's not like O Brother is really about Homer's Oddessy.  They love to say one thing and do something completely different.

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Re: Deception

   I have some thoughts on this 'True Story' thing, but I will have to make this brief, for now, because I am pretty drunk and stoned...

   This phenomena, again, goes back to the very beginning of the motion picture industry...   ( Please forgive me if I do not 'link' the movie titles here... as I said earlier, I am barely able to type...   good thing this is not a 'live' chat...)

   Here are some TRUE serial killers/monsters who have had (inacurate) movies made about them ...

   Ed Gein... ("Psycho", "The Texas Chainsaw Massacre" + more...)

   Charlie Manson

   Henry Lee Lucas

   'Jack The Ripper'

   John Wayne Gacy

   Jefferey Dahmer

   'The Green River Killer'

   'Zodiac'

   'The Boston Strangler'

... the list goes on...

   and then there are the movies that were the greatest hoaxes of our time.... the two that come to mind immediately are ...

   "The Blair Witch Project" ... which had a huge internet marketing campain that claimed that this story is true...

   "The Thirteenth Warrior" ... aka 'The Eaters Of The Dead' ...  this was not so much a hoax in the 'movie' form as it was in the 'novel' form...   If you open the book of 'The Eaters Of The Dead' by Micheal Chrighton, you will see a huge 'introduction' that claims that every word you are about to read is TRUE... then, at the end, is a short 'disclaimer' saying that what you have just read is entirely a work of fiction...

   ... more to come...

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wow, that is so weird! i just watched The Shape Of Things for the second time in a week just a couple days ago. i saw it first by myself and then wanted my husband to see it too. anyway, i felt exactly the same way! (slight spoilers follow) the first time i thought she was the most horrible woman ever and the second time she didn't seem so bad. i even thought maybe he was better off at the end, certainly wiser anyway!  

Re: Deception

porcupine:

This becomes the most troubling with films that claim to be portraying factual events (including documentaries) because we let our guard down and accept them as truth.

This seems to be the main point of dispute.  Obviously some people get upset when there is some deception within the world of the film.  Like the film contradicting itself as to whether a certain character lived or died for instance like in some of the examples above.  The worst people could get upset about something like that would be to merely say in the end they don't like the film, and nothing else beyond that.  But when people are lead to believe a movie is declaring that actual events have occured at a certain time and place in our actual history, and that turns out to be false, people seem much more upset.  I guess the question is why?

Why does it actually affect people?  Do people have a skewed idea of what true and false actually mean in a film and what the purpose for those words are in this situation?  And if people are going to be so caught up in searching for this kind of truth in the film or media altogether, shouldn't they realize they need to be a lot more weary of what they are told?

porcupine:

Is it fair to say that the misleading title card and the Coens' statements are part of the "artwork"?

That was sort of my impression.  I feel as though their movies are generally exercises in different genres.  This movies was in one way their attempt at the "true story reenactment" type of genre.  They also have said I believe that they did it because there are certain things the audience is more accepting of if you make them believe what they saw actually occured in the same way at a real time and place.  I guess those things sort of go together.

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Dr_Gor:

"The Blair Witch Project" ... which had a huge internet marketing campain that claimed that this story is true...

This is one I thought of specifically later.  If you liked being fooled by The Blair Witch Project, which was infinately more active in it's deception, then I don't understand why you would have any problems with what Fargo did.

Dr_Gor:

If you open the book of 'The Eaters Of The Dead' by Micheal Chrighton, you will see a huge 'introduction' that claims that every word you are about to read is TRUE... then, at the end, is a short 'disclaimer' saying that what you have just read is entirely a work of fiction...

It should be also noted that Fargo claims the standard disclaimer at the end credits stating that the characters and situations in the preceeding film were all fictionalized and any resemblence to actual people or events is coincidental.  Unfortunately most people fail to sit through the end credits of films.