sci-fi

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

Risselada — Mon, 02 Feb 2009 18:39:49 GMT

Today is Groundhog Day and I would like to mention that the movie of the same name is also a time travel movie of sorts. In this one though it's not really a physical body that movies through time, it's more of a man's spirit. As in he doesn't really age or retain any injuries when he jumps back to the beginning of the day.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

Dr_Gor — Sat, 31 Jan 2009 01:33:45 GMT

I can't believe no one has mentioned Time Bandits . This Monty Python- esque time travel movie is a forgotten classic. Monty Python and the Holy Grail would certainly qualify as well...

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

mythman — Wed, 21 Jan 2009 01:31:44 GMT

Risselada:

rjsprague:
... treatment of time travel ...

... 12 Monkeys was one of the most interesting Time Travel movies.

I was always amused by the Back to the Future movies how they always tried to break down time travel and the ramifications and explain it to the audience, and then it would go right ahead and break all of the rules it set up.

I agree that 12 Monkeys was good to time-travel, and that the Back to the Future series was first-and-foremost a comedy. Another one that was good to time-travel was the Terminator series - most-notably Terminator 3 which (like 12 Monkeys) presented a logical truth about Time-Travel.

The Butterfly Effect (2004) might've done that too--I don't remember.

Bluntly, that truth is that there are some things you can't prevent (just like there are some you can't predict.)

It makes me think of Rubik's Algorhythms---sets of four twists that, when repeated, move a selected square to the 'front' without radically changing any of the other squares on the 'front' (I saw in a Squidoo-lens a while ago).

Likewise, time travel can't change the 'present future' (the 'face'), it seems it can only make sure that a selected being moves into it.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

Risselada — Fri, 16 Jan 2009 15:18:41 GMT

Ok, so I just saw Timecrimes last night!

And I must now say that it probably is the best time time travel movie I've ever seen. I still may think that Twelve Monkeys is a better movie, but in terms of examination of how things could work in a complicated time travel situation I think Timecrimes is the best. Has anyone else here seen it yet??

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

joem18b — Sat, 10 Jan 2009 08:28:48 GMT

just watching Stargate Continuum. time travel. grandfather paradox. parallel timelines. nice.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

rjsprague — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 14:45:31 GMT

Dr_Gor:

rjsprague:

Well who remember every random episode of the original Star Trek? Especially since I'm only 25 years old. I haven't even SEEN every episode of that show. Good call on the Voyage Home though I have seen that one multiple times, but it simply slipped my mind. I often forget the names of movies I find forgettable...

For you good English not important. For me is. If you have been unfortunate enough to have missed ANY episodes of the original Star Trek or TNG or Deep Space 9 OR Voyager ... you should deffinately watch them ASAP ... you are missing out ...

Yeah good english is a minor point in a discussion post. And I have seen most of TNG and Deep Space 9. The original Star Trek makes me want to punch someone in the face because I just can't stand the poor visual quality.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

Dr_Gor — Wed, 31 Dec 2008 01:42:06 GMT

rjsprague:

Well who remember every random episode of the original Star Trek? Especially since I'm only 25 years old. I haven't even SEEN every episode of that show. Good call on the Voyage Home though I have seen that one multiple times, but it simply slipped my mind. I often forget the names of movies I find forgettable...

For you good English not important. For me is. If you have been unfortunate enough to have missed ANY episodes of the original Star Trek or TNG or Deep Space 9 OR Voyager ... you should deffinately watch them ASAP ... you are missing out ...

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

joem18b — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:48:47 GMT

rjsprague:

Thanks for mocking me Joe, you're always welcome around here.

that wasn't mocking, dude. those were two amazing coincidences i experienced. it means our karma is connected.

last night instead of counting sheep, i tried to think of an explanation for the grandfather paradox. rather than clutter up this discussion, i put the results here.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

rjsprague — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:23:36 GMT

joem18b:

well, this is weird. sat down tonight to watch the 5th episode of Lost, Season 4, and, you guessed it: time travel. and lots of it, right out of the blue.

and now this is ridiculous. picked up the paper and the first thing my eyes land upon is a review of the new spanish sci-fi flick "timecrimes."

and now, i could be wrong, but i have the strange feeling that i've gone back three hours in time. oh. i burped. yes, that's what i ate three hours ago!

Thanks for mocking me Joe, you're always welcome around here.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

rjsprague — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:22:16 GMT

Risselada:

Here is a great website that has been around for quite a while:

http://www.mjyoung.net/time/

I was glad to do a search and still find it up. I've visited many time for many many years every time I watch a new time travel movie to see if it's up there. This guy goes to a lot of lengths to describe in detail the kind of stuff you and I probably notice in these movies Ryan.

Thanks Brian I'm always interested to read others thoughts on the matter. I just wish filmmakers would take more time to study the physics behind this kind of thing, even if it doesn't exist. Accurate theoretical physics has to make more sense than some of the half-assed crap these screenwriters come up with.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

rjsprague — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 13:16:37 GMT

Dr_Gor:

   You haven't seen a lot of Star Trek , have you Ryan.   I don't remember the title but there was an episode of the ORIGINAL series starring a VERY young Joan Collins (mmmmm...) where Kirk and the boys discover an old guy on some obscure planet who calls himself "The Timekeeper" or something like that.   This guy has a portal-like device, that is about the size of a doorway in your home, that is much like the Stargate only smaller...   You stand there and watch a bunch of random scenes of various moments from different times and different worlds (including Earth!) and if you jumped through that portal you would end up exactly when or where ever was showing on the screen at that time!   The problem was that the screen changed rather often and quickly!   In other words you could take a dive at the portal and it could change before you hit it! Kirk "accidentally" stumbles into this thing and is transported back to Earth in the 1930's or 40's where he meets a hot young chickie who he would like to get to know a little bit better, if you know what I mean, and when he saves her from getting hit by a bus he comepletely fucks up the space-time continuum and then realizes that he must go back and make things right.

   There was the TNG movie that you mentioned AND Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home ...   You know... The one with the Klingon ship and the whales?   There were some other examples that I cannot think of right now...   (I can't believe I am having to EXPLAIN this to a "Sci-Fi" fan!) ...

                                                                      < GOR >

Well who remember every random episode of the original Star Trek? Especially since I'm only 25 years old. I haven't even SEEN every episode of that show. Good call on the Voyage Home though I have seen that one multiple times, but it simply slipped my mind. I often forget the names of movies I find forgettable...

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

joem18b — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 05:20:50 GMT

well, this is weird. sat down tonight to watch the 5th episode of Lost, Season 4, and, you guessed it: time travel. and lots of it, right out of the blue.

and now this is ridiculous. picked up the paper and the first thing my eyes land upon is a review of the new spanish sci-fi flick "timecrimes."

and now, i could be wrong, but i have the strange feeling that i've gone back three hours in time. oh. i burped. yes, that's what i ate three hours ago!

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

Dr_Gor — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:56:38 GMT

rjsprague:

Dr_Gor:

rjsprague:

I've recently been watching Heroes, which resulted in some poor sci-fi trivia, and something, actually many things, bother me about the series. One of the biggest issues is time travel. I feel like the ability to travel in time is too common, and that it is often very poorly explained because explaining it is too complex, but understanding the ramifications of allowing such a device to exist in film or television can be even more confusing.

Needless to say I'm fairly disappointed with Heroes' treatment of time travel. I wanted to know if anyone felt there were films in which time travel was used that didn't result in conflicts in the logic of events, etc. Preferably it would be used intelligently, unlike Hiro Nakamura's brainless journeys through the space/time continuum.

Two words ... Star Trek !

What the hell are you talking about Gor? The only time travel can recall in Star Trek is First Contact, the next gen film where they go back in time to when that guy creates the first warp drive. I thought that was done fairly well, mainly because they only time-traveled once, but still there is an issue with all of this if you take the time to think about it.

For instance, if two guys from the future go back in time and cause some great event to take place then they've changed history right? Unless the future me exists already in the "space/time" continuum it couldn't have gone back in time to do something that would affect me right now. This is obviously a pretty ridiculous flaw.

You haven't seen a lot of Star Trek , have you Ryan. I don't remember the title but there was an episode of the ORIGINAL series starring a VERY young Joan Collins (mmmmm...) where Kirk and the boys discover an old guy on some obscure planet who calls himself "The Timekeeper" or something like that. This guy has a portal-like device, that is about the size of a doorway in your home, that is much like the Stargate only smaller... You stand there and watch a bunch of random scenes of various moments from different times and different worlds (including Earth!) and if you jumped through that portal you would end up exactly when or where ever was showing on the screen at that time! The problem was that the screen changed rather often and quickly! In other words you could take a dive at the portal and it could change before you hit it! Kirk "accidentally" stumbles into this thing and is transported back to Earth in the 1930's or 40's where he meets a hot young chickie who he would like to get to know a little bit better, if you know what I mean, and when he saves her from getting hit by a bus he comepletely fucks up the space-time continuum and then realizes that he must go back and make things right.

There was the TNG movie that you mentioned AND Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home ... You know... The one with the Klingon ship and the whales? There were some other examples that I cannot think of right now... (I can't believe I am having to EXPLAIN this to a "Sci-Fi" fan!) ...

< GOR >

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

joem18b — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:30:33 GMT

rjsprague:

What the hell are you talking about Gor? The only time travel can recall in Star Trek is First Contact, the next gen film where they go back in time to when that guy creates the first warp drive. I thought that was done fairly well, mainly because they only time-traveled once, but still there is an issue with all of this if you take the time to think about it.

For instance, if two guys from the future go back in time and cause some great event to take place then they've changed history right? Unless the future me exists already in the "space/time" continuum it couldn't have gone back in time to do something that would affect me right now. This is obviously a pretty ridiculous flaw.

What about Star Trek IV - the one with the whales?

SF has been dealing with timetravel paradoxes like the one you mention for many a year. Heinlein had some great stories on the subject: you go back and kill your grandfather and then, what happens to you? Among the answers are, multiple timelines (they branch); end of the universe because of tear in the continuum caused by the paradox; once you're here, you're here, but when you go back, nobody knows you; self-healing universe - you kill your grandfather but then it turns out that he wasn't really your grandfather, or they bring him back to life, or he's already fathered your father, or ??; etc., etc.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

mciocco — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:30:13 GMT

For my money, nothing beats the original The Terminator for a good time travel story that solves the whole paradox problem. It uses what's called the circular causality explanation of time travel, which means that it's not possible to change the course of history. You can travel back in time, but it will not result in any changes to history because everything you did in the past has already happened. This is a particularly popular time travel theory and makes for great stories with wonderfully ironic endings, such as the aforementioned The Terminator, in which Skynet sends back a robot to kill the mother of its enemy, but neglects to consider that the rebels will send back Reese, who ends up fathering their enemy! Furthermore, Skynet only comes into existence because of the remains of the terminator that got sent back.

This is a theory that has been used in other films as well. Someone already mentioned 12 Monkeys, which uses the same theory. Interestingly enough, so does Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure (though I don't know if I would say they did a very rigorous job, towards the end, they do make good use of this theory).

Annoyingly, Terminator 2 kinda takes the opposite view and features a bunch of people attempting to stop the future. The more I think about it, the less I like T2.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

Risselada — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:17:54 GMT

Here is a great website that has been around for quite a while:

http://www.mjyoung.net/time/

I was glad to do a search and still find it up. I've visited many time for many many years every time I watch a new time travel movie to see if it's up there. This guy goes to a lot of lengths to describe in detail the kind of stuff you and I probably notice in these movies Ryan.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

rjsprague — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:14:28 GMT

seely:

My favorite example of time travel (in addition to being one of my favorite films) would have to be from Donnie Darko. Its not exactly a Sci-Fi film, but it sure borders on it. I have the director's cut on DVD, which features the full text of "Roberta Sparrow's" treatise on the subject--a nun turned time travel expert theorist from the film. The time travel premise is simple in theory: a wormhole opens, and any vessel capable of withstanding the rigors of time travel is able to pass through the space-time continuum and exit the wormhole at a different place in time. Very creepy/fascinating film IMHO.

rjsprague:

I'd also like to point out that in film it seems like the people who are able to utilize the power of time travel are SOOOO dumb it hurts.

Yeah I saw Donnie Darko. It was good, and one of the few films where I don't remember blatantly ridiculous logical fallacies related to the time-travel.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

seely — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:59:16 GMT

My favorite example of time travel (in addition to being one of my favorite films) would have to be from Donnie Darko. Its not exactly a Sci-Fi film, but it sure borders on it. I have the director's cut on DVD, which features the full text of "Roberta Sparrow's" treatise on the subject--a nun turned time travel expert theorist from the film. The time travel premise is simple in theory: a wormhole opens, and any vessel capable of withstanding the rigors of time travel is able to pass through the space-time continuum and exit the wormhole at a different place in time. Very creepy/fascinating film IMHO.

rjsprague:

I'd also like to point out that in film it seems like the people who are able to utilize the power of time travel are SOOOO dumb it hurts.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

rjsprague — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:51:00 GMT

I'd also like to point out that in film it seems like the people who are able to utilize the power of time travel are SOOOO dumb it hurts.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

rjsprague — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:48:18 GMT

Risselada:

rjsprague:
Needless to say I'm fairly disappointed with Heroes' treatment of time travel. I wanted to know if anyone felt there were films in which time travel was used that didn't result in conflicts in the logic of events, etc.

I'll have to watch it again, but I always thought 12 Monkeys was one of the most interesting Time Travel movies.

I was always amused by the Back to the Future movies how they always tried to break down time travel and the ramifications and explain it to the audience, and then it would go right ahead and break all of the rules it set up.

Yeah 12 Monkeys definitely had a complexity with the whole time travel thing that made me think. I should also rewatch it to get a better idea of the consistency, or lackthereof, with their use of time travel.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

rjsprague — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 15:45:41 GMT

Dr_Gor:

rjsprague:

I've recently been watching Heroes, which resulted in some poor sci-fi trivia, and something, actually many things, bother me about the series. One of the biggest issues is time travel. I feel like the ability to travel in time is too common, and that it is often very poorly explained because explaining it is too complex, but understanding the ramifications of allowing such a device to exist in film or television can be even more confusing.

Needless to say I'm fairly disappointed with Heroes' treatment of time travel. I wanted to know if anyone felt there were films in which time travel was used that didn't result in conflicts in the logic of events, etc. Preferably it would be used intelligently, unlike Hiro Nakamura's brainless journeys through the space/time continuum.

Two words ... Star Trek !

What the hell are you talking about Gor? The only time travel can recall in Star Trek is First Contact, the next gen film where they go back in time to when that guy creates the first warp drive. I thought that was done fairly well, mainly because they only time-traveled once, but still there is an issue with all of this if you take the time to think about it.

For instance, if two guys from the future go back in time and cause some great event to take place then they've changed history right? Unless the future me exists already in the "space/time" continuum it couldn't have gone back in time to do something that would affect me right now. This is obviously a pretty ridiculous flaw.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

joem18b — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 23:20:21 GMT

I liked Timecop, too. Van Damme goes back in time but each time that he returns to the present, it is more changed, due to the bad guy going back too, and altering the past. Don't remember the details, tho.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

Risselada — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:25:37 GMT

rjsprague:
Needless to say I'm fairly disappointed with Heroes' treatment of time travel. I wanted to know if anyone felt there were films in which time travel was used that didn't result in conflicts in the logic of events, etc.

I'll have to watch it again, but I always thought 12 Monkeys was one of the most interesting Time Travel movies.

I was always amused by the Back to the Future movies how they always tried to break down time travel and the ramifications and explain it to the audience, and then it would go right ahead and break all of the rules it set up.

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

Dr_Gor — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 22:17:19 GMT

rjsprague:

I've recently been watching Heroes, which resulted in some poor sci-fi trivia, and something, actually many things, bother me about the series. One of the biggest issues is time travel. I feel like the ability to travel in time is too common, and that it is often very poorly explained because explaining it is too complex, but understanding the ramifications of allowing such a device to exist in film or television can be even more confusing.

Needless to say I'm fairly disappointed with Heroes' treatment of time travel. I wanted to know if anyone felt there were films in which time travel was used that didn't result in conflicts in the logic of events, etc. Preferably it would be used intelligently, unlike Hiro Nakamura's brainless journeys through the space/time continuum.

Two words ... Star Trek !

Re:The Problem with Time Travel

joem18b — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 07:29:28 GMT

hard to beat Primer for an exploration of time travel.

i heard somewhere that shane carruth is finally making another movie. he's been working on it for 2.5 years and is about to go into production.

there's an excellent Primer timeline. I printed it out in pieces, taped it together, and held it on my lap the last time i watched the movie.

The Problem with Time Travel

rjsprague — Thu, 18 Dec 2008 05:03:21 GMT

I've recently been watching Heroes, which resulted in some poor sci-fi trivia, and something, actually many things, bother me about the series. One of the biggest issues is time travel. I feel like the ability to travel in time is too common, and that it is often very poorly explained because explaining it is too complex, but understanding the ramifications of allowing such a device to exist in film or television can be even more confusing.

Needless to say I'm fairly disappointed with Heroes' treatment of time travel. I wanted to know if anyone felt there were films in which time travel was used that didn't result in conflicts in the logic of events, etc. Preferably it would be used intelligently, unlike Hiro Nakamura's brainless journeys through the space/time continuum.