Weekly Theme

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Risselada — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 21:10:13 GMT

mercurial:

Here's a fun little timeline made about time travel in movies:

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/timelines/

Very nice!

I like how the end of the line for much of the The Time Machine goes totally off the chart.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

mercurial — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 20:20:23 GMT

Here's a fun little timeline made about time travel in movies:

http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/timelines/

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Risselada — Fri, 29 May 2009 13:53:43 GMT

joem18b:

Risselada:

joem18b:

as i said previously, i assumed that all neurologists would scoff at the notion of free will. i forgot that the members of this bunch were all conservative republicans. when i asked if, knowledgable as they were about the inner workings of the brain, they believed in free will, as a man (they're all male) they replied, "Sure we believe in free will. Nobody is going to tell us what to do!"

Hmmm, so what are your assumptions in this matter? What do you think the implications of this is?

Are you suggesting that the idea if free will is one held by conservative republicans while those holding differeing or opposite political viewpoints might find the idea of free will an illusion?

Or are you suggesting that the question of free will cannot be determined by the study of neurology or the kind of study and reasoning usually implemented by our common study of science and the scientific method (my personal hunch)? Are you saying that beliefs commonly held in a profession are trumped by political beliefs?

Any or all of these things? Or anything else?

first, a question for you:

two lesbians and a dwarf walk into a bar...

does that make you smile or not?

I'm ambivalent until I hear the punchline. Anything has potential though.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Dr_Gor — Fri, 29 May 2009 01:19:07 GMT

joem18b:

Risselada:

joem18b:

as i said previously, i assumed that all neurologists would scoff at the notion of free will. i forgot that the members of this bunch were all conservative republicans. when i asked if, knowledgable as they were about the inner workings of the brain, they believed in free will, as a man (they're all male) they replied, "Sure we believe in free will. Nobody is going to tell us what to do!"

Hmmm, so what are your assumptions in this matter? What do you think the implications of this is?

Are you suggesting that the idea if free will is one held by conservative republicans while those holding differeing or opposite political viewpoints might find the idea of free will an illusion?

Or are you suggesting that the question of free will cannot be determined by the study of neurology or the kind of study and reasoning usually implemented by our common study of science and the scientific method (my personal hunch)? Are you saying that beliefs commonly held in a profession are trumped by political beliefs?

Any or all of these things? Or anything else?

first, a question for you:

two lesbians and a dwarf walk into a bar...

does that make you smile or not?

My God. I have been wanting to comment on this conversation but it might not be anything that either of you want to hear...

< GOR >

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

joem18b — Thu, 28 May 2009 21:21:02 GMT

Risselada:

joem18b:

as i said previously, i assumed that all neurologists would scoff at the notion of free will. i forgot that the members of this bunch were all conservative republicans. when i asked if, knowledgable as they were about the inner workings of the brain, they believed in free will, as a man (they're all male) they replied, "Sure we believe in free will. Nobody is going to tell us what to do!"

Hmmm, so what are your assumptions in this matter? What do you think the implications of this is?

Are you suggesting that the idea if free will is one held by conservative republicans while those holding differeing or opposite political viewpoints might find the idea of free will an illusion?

Or are you suggesting that the question of free will cannot be determined by the study of neurology or the kind of study and reasoning usually implemented by our common study of science and the scientific method (my personal hunch)? Are you saying that beliefs commonly held in a profession are trumped by political beliefs?

Any or all of these things? Or anything else?

first, a question for you:

two lesbians and a dwarf walk into a bar...

does that make you smile or not?

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Risselada — Tue, 26 May 2009 16:15:38 GMT

joem18b:

as i said previously, i assumed that all neurologists would scoff at the notion of free will. i forgot that the members of this bunch were all conservative republicans. when i asked if, knowledgable as they were about the inner workings of the brain, they believed in free will, as a man (they're all male) they replied, "Sure we believe in free will. Nobody is going to tell us what to do!"

Hmmm, so what are your assumptions in this matter? What do you think the implications of this is?

Are you suggesting that the idea if free will is one held by conservative republicans while those holding differeing or opposite political viewpoints might find the idea of free will an illusion?

Or are you suggesting that the question of free will cannot be determined by the study of neurology or the kind of study and reasoning usually implemented by our common study of science and the scientific method (my personal hunch)? Are you saying that beliefs commonly held in a profession are trumped by political beliefs?

Any or all of these things? Or anything else?

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Dr_Gor — Sat, 23 May 2009 22:54:57 GMT

rjsprague:

If Dr Gor were here he'd have already mentioned....

Back to the Future

Back to the Future II

Back to the Future III

I have enjoyed many of the films already mentioned, but I really need to pick up Timecrimes. One of my favorite books growing up was The Time Machine, which was made into a movie, but I've never seen it. Perhaps I will someday.

Actually I wouldn't have mentioned the Back to the Future movies although they were pretty good comedies and I was a bit disturbed by the first one in that if I went back in time and met the teenage version of my mother and she looked like Lea Thompson and she had the hots for me, there might be a bit of a dilema.

Both versions of The Time Machine were very good with the original, of course, being the better of the two. The "Morlocks" were effectively frightening in both.

A few good ones that haven't been mentioned yet...

Time Bandits ; Time traveling midget thieves create havoc in this Monty Pythonesque adventure with a great soundtrack by George Harrison.

Time After Time ; H. G. Wells uses his home made time machine to pursue Jack The Ripper to modern day (at the time) San Francisco.

Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home ; Kirk and the boys must retrieve a mating pair of humpback whales from the 20th century in order to stop a deadly alien invasion in the future.

< GOR >

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

joem18b — Thu, 21 May 2009 07:18:20 GMT

as i said previously, i assumed that all neurologists would scoff at the notion of free will. i forgot that the members of this bunch were all conservative republicans. when i asked if, knowledgable as they were about the inner workings of the brain, they believed in free will, as a man (they're all male) they replied, "Sure we believe in free will. Nobody is going to tell us what to do!"

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Risselada — Tue, 19 May 2009 18:03:44 GMT

joem18b:

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

But is that what most neurologists really think? That free will doesn't exist? Is that what they would honestly and bluntly say?

I'll be in a meeting with a couple of them a week from Tuesday. If I can remember, I'll ask them.

For real? In what context? I'd be interested to know if you can remember to ask them!!

we're all on the board of a chamber orchestra. i should write myself a note. if i find anybody there who believes in free will, i'll be suprised.

Ok, don't forget to ask them tomorrow!!

It's a week from tomorrow. The tension mounts!

Joe, what did they say??!

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Risselada — Mon, 11 May 2009 16:47:15 GMT

joem18b:

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

But is that what most neurologists really think? That free will doesn't exist? Is that what they would honestly and bluntly say?

I'll be in a meeting with a couple of them a week from Tuesday. If I can remember, I'll ask them.

For real? In what context? I'd be interested to know if you can remember to ask them!!

we're all on the board of a chamber orchestra. i should write myself a note. if i find anybody there who believes in free will, i'll be suprised.

Ok, don't forget to ask them tomorrow!!

It's a week from tomorrow. The tension mounts!

Don't forget. TOMORROW!!!

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

mercurial — Fri, 08 May 2009 22:33:32 GMT

I just saw the new Star Trek today and a major part of the plot revolves around time travel / alternate realities. It was rather dumbed down and not as strict with the "rules" of time travel that other films have established which wasn't necessarily a bad thing. I actually really like the film (up until that rather blah ending).

Let me know what some of you guys think when you get a chance to see the film.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Risselada — Fri, 08 May 2009 17:23:56 GMT

leeroy711:

joem18b:

I did travel back. I told me that there is in fact "will," but that it isn't "free." Then I said to me, "See you later!"

Oh yeah. That's my buddy, Will....... he's in jail.

Oh brother

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

leeroy711 — Fri, 08 May 2009 07:19:09 GMT

joem18b:

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

But is that what most neurologists really think? That free will doesn't exist? Is that what they would honestly and bluntly say?

I'll be in a meeting with a couple of them a week from Tuesday. If I can remember, I'll ask them.

For real? In what context? I'd be interested to know if you can remember to ask them!!

we're all on the board of a chamber orchestra. i should write myself a note. if i find anybody there who believes in free will, i'll be suprised.

Ok, don't forget to ask them tomorrow!!

It's a week from tomorrow. The tension mounts!

Oh no! I was expecting a response today!!!!

Why won't your future self time travel back to now so that you can write me the response without delay!

I did travel back. I told me that there is in fact "will," but that it isn't "free." Then I said to me, "See you later!"

Oh yeah. That's my buddy, Will....... he's in jail.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

joem18b — Fri, 08 May 2009 05:56:44 GMT

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

But is that what most neurologists really think? That free will doesn't exist? Is that what they would honestly and bluntly say?

I'll be in a meeting with a couple of them a week from Tuesday. If I can remember, I'll ask them.

For real? In what context? I'd be interested to know if you can remember to ask them!!

we're all on the board of a chamber orchestra. i should write myself a note. if i find anybody there who believes in free will, i'll be suprised.

Ok, don't forget to ask them tomorrow!!

It's a week from tomorrow. The tension mounts!

Oh no! I was expecting a response today!!!!

Why won't your future self time travel back to now so that you can write me the response without delay!

I did travel back. I told me that there is in fact "will," but that it isn't "free." Then I said to me, "See you later!"

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Risselada — Wed, 06 May 2009 15:32:25 GMT

joem18b:

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

But is that what most neurologists really think? That free will doesn't exist? Is that what they would honestly and bluntly say?

I'll be in a meeting with a couple of them a week from Tuesday. If I can remember, I'll ask them.

For real? In what context? I'd be interested to know if you can remember to ask them!!

we're all on the board of a chamber orchestra. i should write myself a note. if i find anybody there who believes in free will, i'll be suprised.

Ok, don't forget to ask them tomorrow!!

It's a week from tomorrow. The tension mounts!

Oh no! I was expecting a response today!!!!

Why won't your future self time travel back to now so that you can write me the response without delay!

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

joem18b — Tue, 05 May 2009 02:46:47 GMT

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

But is that what most neurologists really think? That free will doesn't exist? Is that what they would honestly and bluntly say?

I'll be in a meeting with a couple of them a week from Tuesday. If I can remember, I'll ask them.

For real? In what context? I'd be interested to know if you can remember to ask them!!

we're all on the board of a chamber orchestra. i should write myself a note. if i find anybody there who believes in free will, i'll be suprised.

Ok, don't forget to ask them tomorrow!!

It's a week from tomorrow. The tension mounts!

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Risselada — Mon, 04 May 2009 16:15:19 GMT

joem18b:

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

But is that what most neurologists really think? That free will doesn't exist? Is that what they would honestly and bluntly say?

I'll be in a meeting with a couple of them a week from Tuesday. If I can remember, I'll ask them.

For real? In what context? I'd be interested to know if you can remember to ask them!!

we're all on the board of a chamber orchestra. i should write myself a note. if i find anybody there who believes in free will, i'll be suprised.

Ok, don't forget to ask them tomorrow!!

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

joem18b — Sat, 02 May 2009 05:19:22 GMT

Risselada:

joem18b:

Risselada:

But is that what most neurologists really think? That free will doesn't exist? Is that what they would honestly and bluntly say?

I'll be in a meeting with a couple of them a week from Tuesday. If I can remember, I'll ask them.

For real? In what context? I'd be interested to know if you can remember to ask them!!

we're all on the board of a chamber orchestra. i should write myself a note. if i find anybody there who believes in free will, i'll be suprised.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Risselada — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 14:37:07 GMT

joem18b:

Risselada:

But is that what most neurologists really think? That free will doesn't exist? Is that what they would honestly and bluntly say?

I'll be in a meeting with a couple of them a week from Tuesday. If I can remember, I'll ask them.

For real? In what context? I'd be interested to know if you can remember to ask them!!

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

joem18b — Thu, 30 Apr 2009 04:49:23 GMT

Risselada:

But is that what most neurologists really think? That free will doesn't exist? Is that what they would honestly and bluntly say?

I'll be in a meeting with a couple of them a week from Tuesday. If I can remember, I'll ask them.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Risselada — Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:27:57 GMT

joem18b:

If you're going to watch Primer, I strongly recommend printing out the wiki timeline, maybe before the second time through. the movie is complicated.

I just looked at that timeline again for Primer. I remember you posting that once before. It was never my impression that the movie was mapped out so specifically. Maybe I will rent Primer again and start watching it along with that timeline. I'll probably just fast forward to the part when the first get into the machine because I found everything before that rather boring as well.

joem18b:

Free will (which i'm thinking most neurologists don't believe exists, but the brain is so complicated that it might as well do) and the notion that the protagonist always has the option of opting out of trying to remain unique are essential to the plot.

But is that what most neurologists really think? That free will doesn't exist? Is that what they would honestly and bluntly say? I don't doubt that much of their methods and results insinuate the lack of free will, but would they say so bluntly? Or would they say something like what you said, that although they make an assumption that free will doesn't exist to some extent for the purposes of their scientific method, the brain is so complicated that they could never really state that practically. I think that's the difficulty in trying to think about time travel which is a purely theoretical scenario based on a scientific understanding of the universe as a cause an effect type of operation mix, and then having people whose minds and wills might be something beyond that kind of speculation. It's interesting to wonder how these things fit together.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

joem18b — Fri, 24 Apr 2009 06:17:48 GMT

Just watched time crimes. i've been avoiding this thread till i saw it, in case of spoilers.

If you're going to watch Primer, I strongly recommend printing out the wiki timeline, maybe before the second time through. the movie is complicated.

I enjoyed time crimes a lot. i'm thinking that it's maybe in my top five time movies but there is always that question of how a movie will hold up.

i thought that the essence of the movie was the following: if a guy goes back in time, he becomes guy #2, but only for the stretch of time when guy #1 is still around. Therefore it's in his interest to ensure that guy #1 goes back in time so that he, #2, is once more the only guy. In fact, he can go back again, and again, and again, as long as when he goes back each time he doesn't mess up the way things happened, because every time he goes back, the previous version of him ceases to exist. Free will (which i'm thinking most neurologists don't believe exists, but the brain is so complicated that it might as well do) and the notion that the protagonist always has the option of opting out of trying to remain unique are essential to the plot. And it all leads to what i think of as a typical european black ending, where the whole point of the movie hinges around the protagonist's choice to act in a certain way or not.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Risselada — Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:58:08 GMT

leeroy711:

I definately thought about this one for quite a bit, and I agree that this film actually did a great job of exploring the concepts of free-will. But I don't know, it really seemed more than anything that the only thing restricting this character's free will was his fear of the whole butterfly effect thing. In short, he had free will, he was just too afraid to do anything different than what he had allready done (huh??) because he felt the need for whatever he knew was going to happen (or allready happened) to remain the same....... But I think I just said almost the same thing you did. Damn it. The more you discuss this film, the more you can get lost in it......

But anyway, I wish I had more time, because it really deserves it. I'll try to revisit this one a bit. I will say that (I'm sure you'll disagree Rizzo) I actually thought that everthing that this film did, was actually done better by Primer. That movie used those same concepts and then added about 4 or 5 layers of other shit to think about. I loved that it was completely unapologetically complicated. And I think that it will hold up better than Timecrimes to repeated viewing.

I wonder if there would have been another way to show the same situation where the person wasn't afraid so you didn't have to question that motivation but if there was a way that everything he had done was by accident. Like maybe he would try to do something different just to see what might happen, only to realize that the result of his actions still resulted in the same results he experienced the first time around, only though a different way than he anticipated. I think there was some of that in this situation too though. It wasn't all fear, especially the third time around! The third time he thought he could change things. He found out that he couldn't, but he realized that his first impression of things were not exactly has he had assumed.

Maybe I will have to watch Primer again. Everyone seemed to go ga-ga over it, but I wasn't interested enough in it to try to piece it all together.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

leeroy711 — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 01:27:06 GMT

Risselada:

Risselada:

leeroy711:

mercurial:

Risselada:

Before I add any more I just want to say up front that if anyone is a fan of time travel movies and you haven't seen Timecrimes yet, try to do so as soon as possible. I saw it at a cool theatre here in Chicago, but it's probably not playing anymore. Hopefully it will be out on DVD soon for everyone. Looks like there is a Hollywood remake in the works too. It has the potential to be GREAT with a bigger budget and better actors, but it's also possible for Hollywood to really **** it up with unecessary Hollywood crap as well, so we'll see.

For whatever reason I just couldn't get into Timecrimes. Throughout the entire film I was overly critical of the main character's motives for continuing to pursue the actions that it was clear he could avoid. For being a relatively low budget film it was shot and constructed incredibly well, but after watching the film and then watching the chronological version of the film included on the DVD, I still found that the main characters actions were just too ridiculous.

But apparently it's just me.

He couldn't avoid the actions he had already taken.

***SPOILERS TO FOLLOW****

I think the kind of view of how time travel must work is essential in which types of time travel movies you will enjoy.

Merc apparently does not see time travel in the same way that maybe I or the filmmakers do, but for me I thought it was brilliant! The guy KNEW that things had to go the the way that he remembered them happening to him from his perspective of events the first time he experienced them when he was experiencing them the second time. As far as he knew he had to do his best to make sure they would happen that way again. Although technically it wasn't as if they were happening AGAIN. They had already happened. He just didn't know HOW they were being caused to happen from his new perspective. There was no way they COULDN'T have happenedend that way, BUT he didn't know why they did. He wasn't able to understand, just like we as the audience weren't entirely sure of, if he had jumped into a new timeline or if he was still in the same one. It turns out at the end that he was always jumping back into the same timeline. If he had somehow decided to do something different. If he had went and ran up to the clone of himself that was living the experience from the first perspective, something that he knew didn't happen the first time he experienced it, would that have somehow thrown him into a new timeline? I don't know! And not knowing that is pretty fuckin scary! That could potentially alter his existance in completely unknowable and irreversible ways. I don't think he had time to even really ponder this excessively though. He just kind of knew he had to keep things going the way that they had been going. I think the third time he experienced it he still didn't know if he could change anything or not. He soon found out that he couldn't change what happened, but his understanding of different perspective of events changed.

The most fascinating part of all of this to me is the examination of the idea of free will. The way we view time is usually a sequence of cause and effect actions. Will one cause always necessitate the same effect if all of the same physical factors are in place? Usually in scientific studies this is thought to be true, but is it also true for our minds? Will the exact same phsyical factors and effect on our senses at a particular moment in time in our lives always phsyically necessitate the same progression of thoughts and actions? If so, there seems to be no real things as free will. Now, that doesn't mean that this movie negates the fact of free will, but it does show a view of time in which your decisions are permanently tied to a permanent space-timeline even though you may have had a free will. It's very difficult for me to wrap my head around, and I may be looking at it completely correctly. It has spritual implications too though. As in the question of, "If God knows everything you will do, how do you have a free will?" I guess just because God knows what you will do, it doesn't mean that he hasn't allowed you to make the choice. Although at times it does seem like a very difficult paradox. I of course am still wrestling with these ideas.

Have you ever seen a movie and thought about it a lot. And were just hoping someone else who saw it would mention it so you could start spitting out all your thoughts and be able to bounce them off other people and have a great discussion? That's what I was hoping would happen here!! Doesn't anyone have anything to say about this??

I definately thought about this one for quite a bit, and I agree that this film actually did a great job of exploring the concepts of free-will. But I don't know, it really seemed more than anything that the only thing restricting this character's free will was his fear of the whole butterfly effect thing. In short, he had free will, he was just too afraid to do anything different than what he had allready done (huh??) because he felt the need for whatever he knew was going to happen (or allready happened) to remain the same....... But I think I just said almost the same thing you did. Damn it. The more you discuss this film, the more you can get lost in it......

But anyway, I wish I had more time, because it really deserves it. I'll try to revisit this one a bit. I will say that (I'm sure you'll disagree Rizzo) I actually thought that everthing that this film did, was actually done better by Primer. That movie used those same concepts and then added about 4 or 5 layers of other shit to think about. I loved that it was completely unapologetically complicated. And I think that it will hold up better than Timecrimes to repeated viewing.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Risselada — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:55:53 GMT

Risselada:

leeroy711:

mercurial:

Risselada:

Before I add any more I just want to say up front that if anyone is a fan of time travel movies and you haven't seen Timecrimes yet, try to do so as soon as possible. I saw it at a cool theatre here in Chicago, but it's probably not playing anymore. Hopefully it will be out on DVD soon for everyone. Looks like there is a Hollywood remake in the works too. It has the potential to be GREAT with a bigger budget and better actors, but it's also possible for Hollywood to really **** it up with unecessary Hollywood crap as well, so we'll see.

For whatever reason I just couldn't get into Timecrimes. Throughout the entire film I was overly critical of the main character's motives for continuing to pursue the actions that it was clear he could avoid. For being a relatively low budget film it was shot and constructed incredibly well, but after watching the film and then watching the chronological version of the film included on the DVD, I still found that the main characters actions were just too ridiculous.

But apparently it's just me.

He couldn't avoid the actions he had already taken.

***SPOILERS TO FOLLOW****

I think the kind of view of how time travel must work is essential in which types of time travel movies you will enjoy.

Merc apparently does not see time travel in the same way that maybe I or the filmmakers do, but for me I thought it was brilliant! The guy KNEW that things had to go the the way that he remembered them happening to him from his perspective of events the first time he experienced them when he was experiencing them the second time. As far as he knew he had to do his best to make sure they would happen that way again. Although technically it wasn't as if they were happening AGAIN. They had already happened. He just didn't know HOW they were being caused to happen from his new perspective. There was no way they COULDN'T have happenedend that way, BUT he didn't know why they did. He wasn't able to understand, just like we as the audience weren't entirely sure of, if he had jumped into a new timeline or if he was still in the same one. It turns out at the end that he was always jumping back into the same timeline. If he had somehow decided to do something different. If he had went and ran up to the clone of himself that was living the experience from the first perspective, something that he knew didn't happen the first time he experienced it, would that have somehow thrown him into a new timeline? I don't know! And not knowing that is pretty fuckin scary! That could potentially alter his existance in completely unknowable and irreversible ways. I don't think he had time to even really ponder this excessively though. He just kind of knew he had to keep things going the way that they had been going. I think the third time he experienced it he still didn't know if he could change anything or not. He soon found out that he couldn't change what happened, but his understanding of different perspective of events changed.

The most fascinating part of all of this to me is the examination of the idea of free will. The way we view time is usually a sequence of cause and effect actions. Will one cause always necessitate the same effect if all of the same physical factors are in place? Usually in scientific studies this is thought to be true, but is it also true for our minds? Will the exact same phsyical factors and effect on our senses at a particular moment in time in our lives always phsyically necessitate the same progression of thoughts and actions? If so, there seems to be no real things as free will. Now, that doesn't mean that this movie negates the fact of free will, but it does show a view of time in which your decisions are permanently tied to a permanent space-timeline even though you may have had a free will. It's very difficult for me to wrap my head around, and I may be looking at it completely correctly. It has spritual implications too though. As in the question of, "If God knows everything you will do, how do you have a free will?" I guess just because God knows what you will do, it doesn't mean that he hasn't allowed you to make the choice. Although at times it does seem like a very difficult paradox. I of course am still wrestling with these ideas.

Have you ever seen a movie and thought about it a lot. And were just hoping someone else who saw it would mention it so you could start spitting out all your thoughts and be able to bounce them off other people and have a great discussion? That's what I was hoping would happen here!! Doesn't anyone have anything to say about this??

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Risselada — Fri, 10 Apr 2009 17:15:13 GMT

leeroy711:

mercurial:

Risselada:

Before I add any more I just want to say up front that if anyone is a fan of time travel movies and you haven't seen Timecrimes yet, try to do so as soon as possible. I saw it at a cool theatre here in Chicago, but it's probably not playing anymore. Hopefully it will be out on DVD soon for everyone. Looks like there is a Hollywood remake in the works too. It has the potential to be GREAT with a bigger budget and better actors, but it's also possible for Hollywood to really **** it up with unecessary Hollywood crap as well, so we'll see.

For whatever reason I just couldn't get into Timecrimes. Throughout the entire film I was overly critical of the main character's motives for continuing to pursue the actions that it was clear he could avoid. For being a relatively low budget film it was shot and constructed incredibly well, but after watching the film and then watching the chronological version of the film included on the DVD, I still found that the main characters actions were just too ridiculous.

But apparently it's just me.

He couldn't avoid the actions he had already taken.

***SPOILERS TO FOLLOW****

I think the kind of view of how time travel must work is essential in which types of time travel movies you will enjoy.

Merc apparently does not see time travel in the same way that maybe I or the filmmakers do, but for me I thought it was brilliant! The guy KNEW that things had to go the the way that he remembered them happening to him from his perspective of events the first time he experienced them when he was experiencing them the second time. As far as he knew he had to do his best to make sure they would happen that way again. Although technically it wasn't as if they were happening AGAIN. They had already happened. He just didn't know HOW they were being caused to happen from his new perspective. There was no way they COULDN'T have happenedend that way, BUT he didn't know why they did. He wasn't able to understand, just like we as the audience weren't entirely sure of, if he had jumped into a new timeline or if he was still in the same one. It turns out at the end that he was always jumping back into the same timeline. If he had somehow decided to do something different. If he had went and ran up to the clone of himself that was living the experience from the first perspective, something that he knew didn't happen the first time he experienced it, would that have somehow thrown him into a new timeline? I don't know! And not knowing that is pretty fuckin scary! That could potentially alter his existance in completely unknowable and irreversible ways. I don't think he had time to even really ponder this excessively though. He just kind of knew he had to keep things going the way that they had been going. I think the third time he experienced it he still didn't know if he could change anything or not. He soon found out that he couldn't change what happened, but his understanding of different perspective of events changed.

The most fascinating part of all of this to me is the examination of the idea of free will. The way we view time is usually a sequence of cause and effect actions. Will one cause always necessitate the same effect if all of the same physical factors are in place? Usually in scientific studies this is thought to be true, but is it also true for our minds? Will the exact same phsyical factors and effect on our senses at a particular moment in time in our lives always phsyically necessitate the same progression of thoughts and actions? If so, there seems to be no real things as free will. Now, that doesn't mean that this movie negates the fact of free will, but it does show a view of time in which your decisions are permanently tied to a permanent space-timeline even though you may have had a free will. It's very difficult for me to wrap my head around, and I may be looking at it completely correctly. It has spritual implications too though. As in the question of, "If God knows everything you will do, how do you have a free will?" I guess just because God knows what you will do, it doesn't mean that he hasn't allowed you to make the choice. Although at times it does seem like a very difficult paradox. I of course am still wrestling with these ideas.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

leeroy711 — Sat, 04 Apr 2009 01:38:19 GMT

mercurial:

Risselada:

Before I add any more I just want to say up front that if anyone is a fan of time travel movies and you haven't seen Timecrimes yet, try to do so as soon as possible. I saw it at a cool theatre here in Chicago, but it's probably not playing anymore. Hopefully it will be out on DVD soon for everyone. Looks like there is a Hollywood remake in the works too. It has the potential to be GREAT with a bigger budget and better actors, but it's also possible for Hollywood to really **** it up with unecessary Hollywood crap as well, so we'll see.

For whatever reason I just couldn't get into Timecrimes. Throughout the entire film I was overly critical of the main character's motives for continuing to pursue the actions that it was clear he could avoid. For being a relatively low budget film it was shot and constructed incredibly well, but after watching the film and then watching the chronological version of the film included on the DVD, I still found that the main characters actions were just too ridiculous.

But apparently it's just me.

He couldn't avoid the actions he had already taken.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

mercurial — Fri, 03 Apr 2009 16:44:38 GMT

Risselada:

Before I add any more I just want to say up front that if anyone is a fan of time travel movies and you haven't seen Timecrimes yet, try to do so as soon as possible. I saw it at a cool theatre here in Chicago, but it's probably not playing anymore. Hopefully it will be out on DVD soon for everyone. Looks like there is a Hollywood remake in the works too. It has the potential to be GREAT with a bigger budget and better actors, but it's also possible for Hollywood to really **** it up with unecessary Hollywood crap as well, so we'll see.

For whatever reason I just couldn't get into Timecrimes. Throughout the entire film I was overly critical of the main character's motives for continuing to pursue the actions that it was clear he could avoid. For being a relatively low budget film it was shot and constructed incredibly well, but after watching the film and then watching the chronological version of the film included on the DVD, I still found that the main characters actions were just too ridiculous.

But apparently it's just me.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Risselada — Tue, 24 Mar 2009 20:09:32 GMT

mercurial:

Does Groundhog Day count?

Yes. It does.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Smooth_J — Fri, 13 Mar 2009 23:47:25 GMT

My first thoughts were Austin Powers, but those are movies that incorporate almost everything about movies into a jumble of shag jokes. I love them.

Donnie Darko is the greatest time travel movie I've ever seen, but that may be because it's one of my favorite and most frequently watched movies.

There was some horrible movie called Timeline that came out a few years ago...I remember feeling stupider after watching it.

Run Lola Run is semi-time traveling, because it's all about time and she gets re-do's, which, of course, require time travel.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Yinali — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 22:30:19 GMT

I haven't seen the other 2 films, but I sure loved The Jacket. Just goes to show that people can go back through time in a weird kind of way...

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

rjsprague — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:06:56 GMT

If Dr Gor were here he'd have already mentioned....

Back to the Future

Back to the Future II

Back to the Future III

I have enjoyed many of the films already mentioned, but I really need to pick up Timecrimes. One of my favorite books growing up was The Time Machine, which was made into a movie, but I've never seen it. Perhaps I will someday.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

SkyPilot — Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:43:01 GMT

mercurial:

The Lake House reunited Sandra Bullock and Keanu Reeves with its time traveling mailbox.

Click was just bad. The begin of Adam Sandler's decline.

First, your Lake House should become the standard Lake House film summary in all TV guides!

Secondly, Adam Sandler's decline began with Click...as recently as 2006?! I guess I always took it for granted that The Wedding Singer was the end of his prime. (It was followed by The Waterboy, Big Daddy, Little Nicky, Punch-Drunk Love [which was actually great], then Mr. Deeds, Anger Management, and The Longest Yard before getting to Click.)

Thirdly, a time travel movie I didn't enjoy very much was Ashton Kutcher's The Butterfly Effect.

I remember it mostly melodramatic, a typical "I'm in love" teensploitation flick.

The theme was kind of interesting, though: it's not just singular events that determine the path of one's life, but entire environments, and the daily grind of circumstances. So going back in time to change just one event doesn't always have the effect one would hope. Pretty thoughtful, in my opinion.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

mercurial — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 19:19:45 GMT

It launched the careers of Jake Gyllenhaal and Seth Rogan and revitalized Patrick Swayze's: Donnie Darko. I haven't crossed into crazy obsessed psycho fan territory yet, but I do think the film is pretty incredible.

Timecop is a guilty pleasure for many, not just fans of JCVD.

Click was just bad. The begin of Adam Sandler's decline.

Galaxy Quest wasn't really about time travel except for the Omega 13 device at the end of the film.

I really liked The Last Mimzy. Great Sci-Fi flick for the kiddies about a time traveling stuffed bunny rabbit.

Jubliee was a whole mess of crazy about Queen Elizabeth traveling into the future full of crazy punk girl roller skating gangs.

Does Groundhog Day count? Reliving the same day over and over through mysterious means is pretty time travel-ish.

Flight of the Navigator had that whole alternate future / time travel thing. But the real stars were Pee Wee as the voice of the ship and that cute little alien thing that I remember desperately begging my parents for as a kid.

The Lake House reunited Sandra Bullock and Keanu Reeves with its time traveling mailbox.

Re:Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

Risselada — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:18:59 GMT

Before I add any more I just want to say up front that if anyone is a fan of time travel movies and you haven't seen Timecrimes yet, try to do so as soon as possible. I saw it at a cool theatre here in Chicago, but it's probably not playing anymore. Hopefully it will be out on DVD soon for everyone. Looks like there is a Hollywood remake in the works too. It has the potential to be GREAT with a bigger budget and better actors, but it's also possible for Hollywood to really **** it up with unecessary Hollywood crap as well, so we'll see.

Weekly Theme for March 9: Time Travel

leeroy711 — Tue, 10 Mar 2009 04:31:49 GMT

This one is just too obvious. I had to look through our previous discussions to make sure we hadn't done this one. I was pretty surprised to find out that we haven't touched it yet. I love time travel movies. It has the ability to be one of the most complicated thematic elements, but when done well, it can completely suck you in..

I think Primer is my favorite example of an intelligent film with a complex plot.

12 Monkeys is just one of the coolest flicks ever. I absolutely love the whole 'science is the newest religion' aspect.

I also thought The Jacket was pretty good.

That's about all I've got for now. I'm really more interested in getting some recomendations. So, let's hear it.

San Dimas High School Football RULES!!!!!!!!