list http://www.spout.com/ Recent community activity around Persona on Spout Copyright 2005-9 Spout, LLC Spout RSS http://www.spout.com/images/SpoutLogoRSS.jpg http://www.spout.com/ 136 30 http://www.spout.com/films/Persona/114827/default.aspx Title: Persona
Year: 1966
Director: Ingmar Bergman
Plot: Persona is difficult to characterize in simple terms, but it may be helpful to describe this complex film as being an exploration of identity that combines elements of drama, visual poetry, and modern psychology. The central story revolves around a young nurse named Alma (Bibi Andersson) and her patient, a well-known actress named Elisabet Vogler (Liv Ullmann). Elisabet has stopped speaking, and the attending psychiatrist treats the actress by sending her to an isolated seaside cottage under Alma's care. There the nurse, who must do all the talking for both women, becomes a little enamored of the actress. One evening Alma tells Elisabet about some exhilarating sexual experiences she once had and their unpleasant aftermath. Soon after sharing this confidence, the nurse reads a letter Elisabet has written and is shocked to learn that the actress thinks of her as an amusing study. The relationship between the women becomes tense, and they wound each other. Then Alma has a long dream in which her identity merges with that of Elisabet, but when the nurse awakes, both women have apparently come to at least temporary terms with their psychological problems. ~ All Movie Guide
Times Tagged: 16
Number of Lists: 22
Number of blog posts: 3
Number of discussion threads: 1
SpoutRating: 4
]]>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 19:19:40 GMTPersona1966Ingmar BergmanPersona is difficult to characterize in simple terms, but it may be helpful to describe this complex film as being an exploration of identity that combines elements of drama, visual poetry, and modern psychology. The central story revolves around a young nurse named Alma (<a href="/players/P_____1469/default.aspx" style='text-decoration:underline'>Bibi Andersson</a>) and her patient, a well-known actress named Elisabet Vogler (<a href="/players/P___114863/default.aspx" style='text-decoration:underline'>Liv Ullmann</a>). Elisabet has stopped speaking, and the attending psychiatrist treats the actress by sending her to an isolated seaside cottage under Alma's care. There the nurse, who must do all the talking for both women, becomes a little enamored of the actress. One evening Alma tells Elisabet about some exhilarating sexual experiences she once had and their unpleasant aftermath. Soon after sharing this confidence, the nurse reads a letter Elisabet has written and is shocked to learn that the actress thinks of her as an amusing study. The relationship between the women becomes tense, and they wound each other. Then Alma has a long dream in which her identity merges with that of Elisabet, but when the nurse awakes, both women have apparently come to at least temporary terms with their psychological problems. ~ All Movie Guide16Tag Target (>10)22314http://www.spout.com/ProductImages/t39904ryj3h.jpghttp://www.spout.com/films/Persona/114827/default.aspxFilm http://www.spout.com/blogs/mridth/archive/2009/9/13/43886.aspx Post By: mridth
Post To: mridth Blog
Post Date: 9/13/2009 2:37:06 PM
Body: The story is simple and fascinating. you can easily see it being remade as a horror film. the plot is there. this woman is driven completly over the edge by frustration and dependancy and just plain hurt. I mean who hasnt left like stabbing someone they love at one point or another? The ending goes a bit weird and confusing, i needed to look up what really happened, but it doesnt spoil anything.
]]>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 18:37:06 GMTmridthmridth Blog9/13/2009 2:37:06 PMThe story is simple and fascinating. you can easily see it being remade as a horror film. the plot is there. this woman is driven completly over the edge by frustration and dependancy and just plain hurt. I mean who hasnt left like stabbing someone they love at one point or another? The ending goes a bit weird and confusing, i needed to look up what really happened, but it doesnt spoil anything. http://www.spout.com/blogs/spoutblog/archive/2007/8/8/17642.aspx Post By: SpoutBlog
Post To: SpoutBlog on spout.com
Post Date: 8/8/2007 6:00:51 PM
Body: Once a month, cultural critic Camille Paglia publishes a lengthy assessment of the current moment in pop culture at Salon.com. This month’s installment went live today, and the meat of it is an Antonioni/Bergman inspired elegy for the art film. The whole piece is, as is the norm for Ms. Paglia, terribly quotable, but the part where she appears to elevate the entire Star Wars series to the status of those late Europeans’ “masterpieces” is probably the most controversial: On the culture front, fabled film directors Ingmar Bergman and Michelangelo Antonioni dying on the same day was certainly a cold douche for my narcissistic generation of the 1960s. We who revered those great artists, we who sat stunned and spellbound before their masterpieces — what have we achieved? Aside from Francis Ford Coppola’s Godfather series, with its deft flashbacks and gritty social realism, is there a single film produced over the past 35 years that is arguably of equal philosophical weight or virtuosity of execution to Bergman’s The Seventh Seal or Persona? Perhaps only George Lucas’ multilayered, six-film Star Wars epic can genuinely claim classic status, and it descends not from Bergman or Antonioni but from Stanley Kubrick and his pop antecedents in Hollywood science fiction. A lot of bloggers are reading this and doing a double-take, as if to say, “Did she just say George Lucas is as good as Bergman? OHNOSHEDIDN’T!!!” Example, from The Opinion Mill: “Only in the mind of Camille Paglia can Jar-Jar Binks push aside Antonius Block to play chess with Death on the stony beach. I’d always considered the mutual starfucking between George Lucas and Joseph Campbell to be the last word in intellectual vacuousness, but one should never underestimate Camille.” This is not how I read Paglia’s statement at all — I read it as, “The only films of the last three decades that may in the future be considered classics are the Star Wars films, and that’s evidence of how far from the art house golden era we’ve fallen.” But maybe I’m wrong. For all I know, Paglia really did mean to equate Antoniennui with (let’s all make this joke at once) the travails of Jar Jar Binks. Later, in the very same column, Camille suggests that Kelly Clarkson has the potential to singlehandedly “revive…the American fine arts.” I’m all for being contrarian, but at some point, doesn’t the polemic start to strain credulity? Originally posted on:Spoutblog
]]>Wed, 08 Aug 2007 22:00:51 GMTSpoutBlogSpoutBlog on spout.com8/8/2007 6:00:51 PMOnce a month, cultural critic Camille Paglia publishes a lengthy assessment of the current moment in pop culture at Salon.com. This month’s installment went live today, and the meat of it is an Antonioni/Bergman inspired elegy for the art film. The whole piece is, as is the norm for Ms. Paglia, terribly quotable, but the part where she appears to elevate the entire Star Wars series to the status of those late Europeans’ “masterpieces” is probably the most controversial: On the culture front, fabled film directors Ingmar Bergman and Michelangelo Antonioni dying on the same day was certainly a cold douche for my narcissistic generation of the 1960s. We who revered those great artists, we who sat stunned and spellbound before their masterpieces — what have we achieved? Aside from Francis Ford Coppola’s Godfather series, with its deft flashbacks and gritty social realism, is there a single film produced over the past 35 years that is arguably of equal philosophical weight or virtuosity of execution to Bergman’s The Seventh Seal or Persona? Perhaps only George Lucas’ multilayered, six-film Star Wars epic can genuinely claim classic status, and it descends not from Bergman or Antonioni but from Stanley Kubrick and his pop antecedents in Hollywood science fiction. A lot of bloggers are reading this and doing a double-take, as if to say, “Did she just say George Lucas is as good as Bergman? OHNOSHEDIDN’T!!!” Example, from The Opinion Mill: “Only in the mind of Camille Paglia can Jar-Jar Binks push aside Antonius Block to play chess with Death on the stony beach. I’d always considered the mutual starfucking between George Lucas and Joseph Campbell to be the last word in intellectual vacuousness, but one should never underestimate Camille.” This is not how I read Paglia’s statement at all — I read it as, “The only films of the last three decades that may in the future be considered classics are the Star Wars films, and that’s evidence of how far from the art house golden era we’ve fallen.” But maybe I’m wrong. For all I know, Paglia really did mean to equate Antoniennui with (let’s all make this joke at once) the travails of Jar Jar Binks. Later, in the very same column, Camille suggests that Kelly Clarkson has the potential to singlehandedly “revive…the American fine arts.” I’m all for being contrarian, but at some point, doesn’t the polemic start to strain credulity? Originally posted on:Spoutblog http://www.spout.com/blogs/jlgdrd/archive/2007/6/26/12206.aspx Post By: jlgdrd
Post To: Wicked Fun
Post Date: 6/26/2007 2:15:00 AM
Body: The controlling idea behind Patrice Chereau's Son Frere is the painful, tragic lack of closeness between men. It is mostly Luc's story, how his brother Thomas's disease becomes a watershed for their troubled relationship. An incident that Thomas cannot remember, and we are never shown, has had far reaching consequences that the two might never have confronted, had it not been for Thomas's sickness. The plot is alarmingly simple. Thomas (Bruno Todeschini) comes back into his brother Luc's life because he does not want to face illness and possible mortality by himself. Of all the people in his life, he has sought out his younger brother for solace and comfort. Luc (Eric Caravaca) makes it clear that he will take care of him because this is what brothers do for one another, but he cannot forgive Thomas for deserting him. He'll go through the motions, but his heart won't be in it.It is never quite revealed if Thomas has done something unforgivable and Luc has been forced to close his heart to survive emotional trauma. We don't understand if he has shut down because he won't or can't return to the closeness they once shared into their teens. But there is no doubt as to his brother's motives - he's dying and has no one else. Thomas is emaciated, and is put through one degrading, diminishing procedure after another. In one particular scene, Luc watches as he is prepped for surgery, his body shaved by cheerful, solicitous nurses. Like most of the film, it is agonizing to watch. Luc never jokes with him to ease his discomfort, or asks for male nurses, or holds his hand. At times he almost seems to be enjoying his brother's humiliation. As the movie progresses (and regresses) he becomes Thomas's sole caregiver and we can see, we can feel him trying to open up. He shares a touching anecdote from their childhood and when he is finished, can't tell if Thomas is awake or asleep. Understand this is not treated as humor. When Thomas falls even deeper into despair, Luc rubs his back as a spontaneous act of affection and tenderness, but at a loss as to how to reach him, for some meaningful way of connecting. The fact that Luc is gay only intensifies the irony and misery that permeates Son Frere. There is quite a bit of male nudity and none of it is bracing or erotic. It only emphasizes how raw and empty the characters feel. Son Frere raises questions about queer sex and male attachment. In a heart to heart with Thomas's girlfriend Claire (Nathalie Boutefeu), Luc remembers he and his brother jerking each other off as teenagers. When we see him having sex we sense he is trying to resolve thwarted intimacy with Thomas. I don't mean incest. Luc intuitively makes contact with strangers; he confides to his boyfriend Vincent (Sylvain Jacques) the disappointment that Thomas was never the kind of brother he needed him to be. He longs to heal but never gives this vital information to Thomas. We must infer a lot from Son Frere's backstory, but I believe it comes by its subtext honestly. More than a few relationships between men were sabotaged by homophobia and you have to wonder if Luc's orientation and his brother's mysterious, platelet-robbing disease (platelets enable us to heal wounds) are metaphors for their destructive, ruined relationship. Chereau may be suggesting that if men bonded with abandon and devotion there might be less use of sex as a passkey. Son Frere explores the sad failure of men to love each other, to reach each other, even when the desire for closeness is keen. In the case of Luc, perhaps it's his male pride that gets in the way. It's hard to justify my misgivings about Son Frere, a brilliant, excruciating film that feeds us the ashes of profound male estrangement without evincing the radiance that precedes it. Late into the film, we're stunned when a Marianne Faithfull song cues us for another drop; it doesn't seem possible, but sure enough, it happens. Movies like Leaving Las Vegas, Persona, or Shoot the Moon can be devastating, but sometimes that's what the best movie-making is all about. Chereau has brought the same level of intensity to relationships between men as Bergman brought to connections between women. He is fearless and audacious in his exploration. Imitative fallacy debunks the transmission of content by matching that experience in the hearts and minds of the audience. I'm not sure if that applies here or not. Son Frere makes us ache for a catharsis that never comes. We're desperate for Luc to break down and reconcile with Thomas. Even when they profess love, they cannot make eye contact. Each loves the other but cannot connect in the present moment. Son Frere is frank enough to acknowledge it doesn't always happen. Even when we want it to.
]]>Tue, 26 Jun 2007 06:15:00 GMTjlgdrdWicked Fun6/26/2007 2:15:00 AM The controlling idea behind Patrice Chereau&#39;s Son Frere is the painful, tragic lack of closeness between men. It is mostly Luc&#39;s story, how his brother Thomas&#39;s disease becomes a watershed for their troubled relationship. An incident that Thomas cannot remember, and we are never shown, has had far reaching consequences that the two might never have confronted, had it not been for Thomas&#39;s sickness. The plot is alarmingly simple. Thomas (Bruno Todeschini) comes back into his brother Luc&#39;s life because he does not want to face illness and possible mortality by himself. Of all the people in his life, he has sought out his younger brother for solace and comfort. Luc (Eric Caravaca) makes it clear that he will take care of him because this is what brothers do for one another, but he cannot forgive Thomas for deserting him. He&#39;ll go through the motions, but his heart won&#39;t be in it.It is never quite revealed if Thomas has done something unforgivable and Luc has been forced to close his heart to survive emotional trauma. We don&#39;t understand if he has shut down because he won&#39;t or can&#39;t return to the closeness they once shared into their teens. But there is no doubt as to his brother&#39;s motives - he&#39;s dying and has no one else. Thomas is emaciated, and is put through one degrading, diminishing procedure after another. In one particular scene, Luc watches as he is prepped for surgery, his body shaved by cheerful, solicitous nurses. Like most of the film, it is agonizing to watch. Luc never jokes with him to ease his discomfort, or asks for male nurses, or holds his hand. At times he almost seems to be enjoying his brother&#39;s humiliation. As the movie progresses (and regresses) he becomes Thomas&#39;s sole caregiver and we can see, we can feel him trying to open up. He shares a touching anecdote from their childhood and when he is finished, can&#39;t tell if Thomas is awake or asleep. Understand this is not treated as humor. When Thomas falls even deeper into despair, Luc rubs his back as a spontaneous act of affection and tenderness, but at a loss as to how to reach him, for some meaningful way of connecting. The fact that Luc is gay only intensifies the irony and misery that permeates Son Frere. There is quite a bit of male nudity and none of it is bracing or erotic. It only emphasizes how raw and empty the characters feel. Son Frere raises questions about queer sex and male attachment. In a heart to heart with Thomas&#39;s girlfriend Claire (Nathalie Boutefeu), Luc remembers he and his brother jerking each other off as teenagers. When we see him having sex we sense he is trying to resolve thwarted intimacy with Thomas. I don&#39;t mean incest. Luc intuitively makes contact with strangers; he confides to his boyfriend Vincent (Sylvain Jacques) the disappointment that Thomas was never the kind of brother he needed him to be. He longs to heal but never gives this vital information to Thomas. We must infer a lot from Son Frere&#39;s backstory, but I believe it comes by its subtext honestly. More than a few relationships between men were sabotaged by homophobia and you have to wonder if Luc&#39;s orientation and his brother&#39;s mysterious, platelet-robbing disease (platelets enable us to heal wounds) are metaphors for their destructive, ruined relationship. Chereau may be suggesting that if men bonded with abandon and devotion there might be less use of sex as a passkey. Son Frere explores the sad failure of men to love each other, to reach each other, even when the desire for closeness is keen. In the case of Luc, perhaps it&#39;s his male pride that gets in the way. It&#39;s hard to justify my misgivings about Son Frere, a brilliant, excruciating film that feeds us the ashes of profound male estrangement without evincing the radiance that precedes it. Late into the film, we&#39;re stunned when a Marianne Faithfull song cues us for another drop; it doesn&#39;t seem possible, but sure enough, it happens. Movies like Leaving Las Vegas, Persona, or Shoot the Moon can be devastating, but sometimes that&#39;s what the best movie-making is all about. Chereau has brought the same level of intensity to relationships between men as Bergman brought to connections between women. He is fearless and audacious in his exploration. Imitative fallacy debunks the transmission of content by matching that experience in the hearts and minds of the audience. I&#39;m not sure if that applies here or not. Son Frere makes us ache for a catharsis that never comes. We&#39;re desperate for Luc to break down and reconcile with Thomas. Even when they profess love, they cannot make eye contact. Each loves the other but cannot connect in the present moment. Son Frere is frank enough to acknowledge it doesn&#39;t always happen. Even when we want it to. http://www.spout.com/blogs/wiskara/archive/2006/8/14/2395.aspx Post By: Wiskara
Post To: Wiskara Blog
Post Date: 8/14/2006 9:20:00 AM
Body: Again, another movie that I was talked into, not by my husband this time but by my mother. Dear mother is a psychotherapist (which explains a lot about me) and thought that this was good Sunday night fun. Wow... what to say. I did not like the spider scene but that really was so minor I just mention it to warn other who like to know if spiders exist in a film prior to viewing it. The touching of the sheep's eyeball was also a bit unsettling but was obviously ment to be that way. All in all the film was good. Not so much fun while you are watching it but one of those that if you go back and think about it you realize how complex the story was. I have heard this movie called an early Fight Club and I agree but I think Fight Club did it better. For sure this is a movie to watch at night and NOT alone, you have to discuss it or you will not think through everything that you should. The more time that passes from the actual movie viewing the better it seems - does that make any sense? If anyone has seen it and wants to share thoughts about it I would love to hear from you but be warned, mom may try to analize your response - she is just like that, I can't rein her in!
]]>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:20:00 GMTWiskaraWiskara Blog8/14/2006 9:20:00 AMAgain, another movie that I was talked into, not by my husband this time but by my mother. Dear mother is a psychotherapist (which explains a lot about me) and thought that this was good Sunday night fun. Wow... what to say. I did not like the spider scene but that really was so minor I just mention it to warn other who like to know if spiders exist in a film prior to viewing it. The touching of the sheep's eyeball was also a bit unsettling but was obviously ment to be that way. All in all the film was good. Not so much fun while you are watching it but one of those that if you go back and think about it you realize how complex the story was. I have heard this movie called an early Fight Club and I agree but I think Fight Club did it better. For sure this is a movie to watch at night and NOT alone, you have to discuss it or you will not think through everything that you should. The more time that passes from the actual movie viewing the better it seems - does that make any sense? If anyone has seen it and wants to share thoughts about it I would love to hear from you but be warned, mom may try to analize your response - she is just like that, I can't rein her in! http://www.spout.com/blogs/a_great_film-18/archive/2005/12/28/97.aspx Post By: aaronBsmith
Post To: A Great Film
Post Date: 12/29/2005 12:01:58 PM
Body: Sufficient conditions - a great story. A great story will have great characters. Production values can be nonexsistant, the budget can be small, the images can look shitty, but if the story is great it doesn't matter. I feel like am stepping into a quagmire of my own making on this point. I am always heralding films that lack "great stories." But, many of these films were made with a ton of passion. Films like, 8 1/2 or Persona. Do I think these two films are great because I know what's been said about them over the years, how many awards they've won and who they were made by?
]]>Thu, 29 Dec 2005 17:01:58 GMTaaronBsmithA Great Film12/29/2005 12:01:58 PMSufficient conditions - a great story. A great story will have great characters. Production values can be nonexsistant, the budget can be small, the images can look shitty, but if the story is great it doesn't matter. I feel like am stepping into a quagmire of my own making on this point. I am always heralding films that lack "great stories." But, many of these films were made with a ton of passion. Films like, 8 1/2 or Persona. Do I think these two films are great because I know what's been said about them over the years, how many awards they've won and who they were made by? http://www.spout.com/members/0/tags/sex/MemberTagFilms.aspxsex
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